Aw fuck here we go

"daender" (daender)
02/05/2015 at 13:41 • Filed to: None

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! Shots fired at University of South Carolina's new School of Public Health. I'm hearing sirens from my apartment near the engineering building. Everyone nearby stay safe!

DISCUSSION (61)

505Turbeaux > daender
02/05/2015 at 13:43

stay safe brother. Nothing on news outlets yet, but I am sure that is coming

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > daender
02/05/2015 at 13:43

Not to be an ass.. but.. WHAT THE FUCK is it with the school shootings in the united states?

daender > Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh
02/05/2015 at 13:44

Hell if I know but it's messed up.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > daender
02/05/2015 at 13:45

What the fuck is wrong with the people that do this crap?!

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh
02/05/2015 at 13:47

Not enough mental health checks.

EL_ULY > Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh
02/05/2015 at 13:47

aberson Bresident of the FullyAssed Committe > AMGtech - now with more recalls!
02/05/2015 at 13:48

everything

no seriously its amazing how fucked up some of these people are

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > EL_ULY
02/05/2015 at 13:50

That's kinda how we Scandis feel about the whole thing indeed. Men fight hand to hand..Pussies fights with a gun.

daender > 505Turbeaux
02/05/2015 at 13:51

I'm constantly blipping through news stations, only one has actually interrupted their programming to break news of the shooting and telling everyone to hunker down and stay safe.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > aberson Bresident of the FullyAssed Committe
02/05/2015 at 13:52

Yeah, I just have a hard time fathoming it. Wish they would talk to somebody first.

EL_ULY > Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh
02/05/2015 at 13:52

people are lazy even when seeking revenge. "I just shoot you, and that's it"

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > EL_ULY
02/05/2015 at 13:56

I'll be fucking honest now.. I can understand that there will be more violence when the population is like god knows how much bigger than my country, but still.. we NEVER have problems like this ANYWHERE.. and Statistically we should have.. Violence at schools? Sure, we have bullies.. we have freaks.. but shootings? Unless you count that fucking right wing terrorist ABB we don't have that shit.

pauljones > daender
02/05/2015 at 13:57

You stay safe, too. Stay inside, and subsist off of bread crumbs for the rest of the day if you have to. Just don't go out until they've caught the asshole.

GhostZ > Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh
02/05/2015 at 13:58

1. Massive black market for personal handguns and rifles

2. Commercially available semi-automatic weapons

3. Relaxed gun laws compared to other schools

4. Heightened levels school security (knives and nonlethal weapons are more likely to get stopped with minor damage than a gun, as a lot of high risk schools have armed guards)

5. Highly competitive and pro-military media and culture.

6. Lack of understanding, funding and adequate treatment of mental illness

In the US, it makes more sense to use a gun than a knife if you want to kill someone, because a gun will ensure the job gets done easier and both are about equally concealed.

Its easier to buy a semi-automatic rifle than most narcotics.

Students are under extreme competitive pressure with their peers and have the efficiency of firearms at providing power explained very clearly to them.

It is seen, by most students, to be worse to go to therapy for depression than to act out in violence, because of extreme social stigma regarding mental illness and very poor identification. Most people who have mental illness are not recognized until an event like this happens.

In reality, school shootings in the US are not that bad if you just remember the comparative ease of obtaining firearms relative to other countries. We're just as violent as other countries, it's just easier for us to kill rapidly.

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > daender
02/05/2015 at 13:59

Stay safe mate.. I kinda went on a rant about this... sorry about that.. Just stay safe mate.

GhostZ > Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh
02/05/2015 at 13:59

Men get arrested and laughed at, pussies kill people and become feared and national news.

Lekker > Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh
02/05/2015 at 14:00

If you ask me, debt+stress induced rage, which few people can't handle. Unfortunately those few people, take a lot of others out with them when they decide to act out.

Brian, The Life of > pauljones
02/05/2015 at 14:00

^^^This right here.

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > GhostZ
02/05/2015 at 14:01

I think you just listed everything I consider wrong with the US mate..

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > daender
02/05/2015 at 14:01

Are you allowed weapons in your room/ dorm

This shit is why i have a concealed carry permit

Lekker > daender
02/05/2015 at 14:02

Stay safe brother, you never know what they'll try. Keep us posted

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > Lekker
02/05/2015 at 14:02

But why does this happen so often in the states?

EL_ULY > Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh
02/05/2015 at 14:02

indeeed sir. It gets crazy everywhere for the same types of situations, but it never reaches that level

daender > pauljones
02/05/2015 at 14:04

Fuck classes, I got my apartment room on lock-down. The shooting's happening about 3 city blocks away from me, near the capitol building, but it's very chilling having it happen in such a close vicinity.

Lekker > Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh
02/05/2015 at 14:04

because countries usually want their population to go to school. Here the banks only care about your life-long-debt-through-college than your actual success. So in reality we are introduced from 17/18 to a world of debt that does not belong to us, and are forced to take part in the non-stop world that this country feeds off of: DEBT and stress. Induced by the media, govmn't, you name it.

daender > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time
02/05/2015 at 14:05

No clue, I got a legal switch-blade and mace just in case.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > daender
02/05/2015 at 14:06

Good. Stay safe friend

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > Lekker
02/05/2015 at 14:09

I don't even know how to respond to that :(

Captain of the Enterprise > daender
02/05/2015 at 14:10

Stay safe man, don't leave your apartment for anything and stay away from doors and windows.

GhostZ > Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh
02/05/2015 at 14:10

The US is a very large, very intricate, very confusing machine. It can't be judged on any moral or ethical grounds. 0.000006% (this is not an exaggeration, 20 out of 300 million) people die a year in school shootings. It's an issue that is, ultimately, shockingly small and minor and compared to other forms of preventable death (automobile accidents?) is almost a non-issue.

However, the Columbine massacre was a major media event that has made, since, even 15 years later, all school shootings into a major spectacle. People pay attention because it's been shown to have a huge emotional impact, meaning that it is both profitable news and a health concern.

The cold reality that all citizens, in all countries, have to face is that "majorly fucked up" things like school shootings are ultimately just minor annoyances and media/propaganda fuel to the overall progress and control of the country.

Lekker > Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh
02/05/2015 at 14:12

Be happy you're not here :) While I'm happy I am here :) because although there are bad things about it here, it's nothing like where I'm from in Mexico. I fear for my family's life on a daily basis since they moved back. So, I'll take the debt and keep my life. It's a great place to live in, as long as you don't give in to, well, truthfully, capitalism.

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > GhostZ
02/05/2015 at 14:14

Thank you, a cold fact response on something, I like that. Still sucks though :(

GhostZ > EL_ULY
02/05/2015 at 14:14

I don't think it's laziness, I think it's more effectiveness. If you bring a knife, there's a very good chance you'll get beaten up, ganged up on, and arrested, and you probably won't even hurt anyone. There's no guarantee you can kill someone (and it's very difficult to do anyway) If you bring a gun, it becomes a hostage situation and you're guaranteed to make state or national news.

Nevermind that most schools have armed guards and police, if you seek revenge using your fists or a knife, you will get tazered, at best.

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > Lekker
02/05/2015 at 14:16

Hush now, never say anything bad about capitalism when living in the states :P

GhostZ > Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh
02/05/2015 at 14:18

Further reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbine…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_s…

If you want to understand the mindset of college students since 2008, read up on Columbine, Matthew Shephard, 9/11, ILOVEYOU worm, etc. These are major, violent events that irreparably changed the way that children thought of violence, power, control, etc, all within a very small time period of 1998-2001 within the US.

crowmolly > GhostZ
02/05/2015 at 14:19

You can probably add "copycatting" to that too.

Fuck this I'll show them

and so forth.

EL_ULY > GhostZ
02/05/2015 at 14:20

very true. The whole national attention is definitely a factor.

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > GhostZ
02/05/2015 at 14:22

I think I've read all there is on the web about Columbine, I just wish I could talk to the people who do this shit. I want to know what goes through their head. Something must've gone amiss for sure, and I'd like to know what.

GhostZ > crowmolly
02/05/2015 at 14:23

I think that's too simple to reduce it to. The structure and society that encourage copycatting is more important than the fact that people do it. There's more systemic causes behind people's decisions than just wanting attention.

GhostZ > Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh
02/05/2015 at 14:25

I don't know much about criminal psychology, but these events are so infrequent and unique compared to most crimes that I doubt there's a lot of similarity beyond the system that makes it easy to happen.

Sort of like trying to figure out what causes car accidents. Someone dies on a collision, but the motivations (talking on the phone, no headlights, driving the wrong way, ran a red light) and the psychology behind them are all unique, even if the end result seems to be the same.

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > GhostZ
02/05/2015 at 14:29

I guess you're right. It just seems like the reasoning is the same when you're looking at it from the outside.

crowmolly > GhostZ
02/05/2015 at 14:30

I am in no way, shape, or form trying to say that copycatting is the reason. Not a chance, it's a very complex problem.

However it is a factor, even if it is a small one. Just look at all of the attention the shooters end up getting. Hell, the reason the Son of Sam law exists is because of the publicity.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh
02/05/2015 at 14:39

As with many things in life, there's no easy answer. But mental health is one place to start - our system sucks, and theres a lot of stigmas in our society associated with it. So people avoid seeking treatment and their condition deteriorates. I think, too, theres a sense of fame and notoriety attached to it.

We also live in the age in society where everyone is a special little "snowflake" - but when people don't get the attention they think they deserve because they are so unique and wonderful, they act out. Couple that with mental illness above and it's a dangerous combination. Especially with a culture that glorifies violence and puts psychos on a pedestal - someone shoots up a school, gets 24 hour non stop media coverage for weeks - to other mentally unhinged people this person is a celebrity and is getting the exact sort of attention they crave. So they do, and more 24 hour news coverage. It becomes a vicious cycle.

There's also the role of the parents/community here. This one's touchy, and I get it - I don't have kids but when I was growing up my parents were involved in my life, sometimes more than I wanted, but they knew what I was doing, where I was going, who I was hanging out with, what movies I was watching, etc. And we spent time together, talked at dinner (I never ate in front of the TV), went on trips together, etc., and they got me involved in activities like Boy Scouts and supported me doing clubs at school and things like that. I know kids I went to school with, have older co-workers with kids, even younger relatives, that are in jail or trouble with the law, on drugs, dead, etc. And by and large most of these people are from screwed up families. Again, I'm not saying family is 100% responsible, I know people who came from shitty families who are outstanding human beings, and I know people from great loving families who are pieces of shit, but those are the exceptions, I think by and large it trends. I extend this to community as well because I had great neighbors, great teachers, friends parents, the Boy Scouts, all people involved in my life and lives of my friends, and we've all turned out well enough. Some people just don't get that, and I really think it affects them down the road.

Also, tying the second and third paragraphs together, I think there's a huge issue with people learning right/wrong, consequences, etc. We also live in a society that glorifies violence and without clear boundaries, I think the two start to blur. I used to watch WWF wrestling when I was a kid, I loved it, and I used to rough house with my friends and even my dad. All I was ever told was be careful and don't hurt each other - then I hit my sister once and it was made abundantly, painfully clear to me that you don't hit people. That's fine and good on TV, and if your friends want to play that's fine if you're careful, but you don't hit people when your mad. the distinction was clear. I grew up with violent movies, video games, etc., but was also had the values instilled in me to love people, avoid confrontation, and never initiate violence. I think a lot of people today aren't getting that message, and over time it just blurs the lines.

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > Snuze: Needs another Swede
02/05/2015 at 14:44

I should write a long and proper answer now. BUT, I think you hit the mark on so many points that it's pointless for me to respond to every single.. uhm point..

You're spot on I'd say. Now we just need to find a solution.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh
02/05/2015 at 14:51

Thanks. I'm sure there are also other factors I haven't considered - I only have my personal world experiences to reflect on, so I'm sure there's so many things that I don't know about that affect these people.

And I'm not sure how to fix it all. Better mental health would be a good place to start, but we need to seriously unfuck our health care system here to make that a reality, I think. And I don't see that happening because everything has become so politicized in that arena.

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > Snuze: Needs another Swede
02/05/2015 at 14:54

Healthcare seems to be getting better though? Obamacare IS a thing right?

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh
02/05/2015 at 15:05

The ACA is a thing, true, and it has made a difference for a lot of people, but it's also not all its cracked up to be. I know people who are on it who have gotten screwed, I know people who desperately need health care coverage who aren't eligible. There's also states trying to block it, and things like that.

It's also my understanding that it doesn't really do much to address mental health coverage, but I may be mistaken on that front. The problem, really, lies in our for-profit medical and insurance system. Because 'Murica, Freedom, and Capitalism, there's no way we'd socialize healthcare in the US, but I don't know how to break the cycle - theres tons of money going into the system and people making millions and billions, but still people not getting treated.

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > Snuze: Needs another Swede
02/05/2015 at 15:08

I know Obamacare ain't solving every problem, but it's one step closer towards Universal health care right? Things like that just won't happen overnight I'm afraid.

BigBlock440 > Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh
02/05/2015 at 15:20

You don't have murder-suicides? Could be the messy end to a love triangle, could be drug related, could be completely random, but that it happened in a college building is probably irrelevant. It's likely just the easiest place to find whoever was the target.

Galileo Humpkins (aka MC Clap Yo Handz) > 505Turbeaux
02/05/2015 at 15:21

Might not take center stage as Jordan has just struck ISIS. I was looking for an update to this shooting situation as well.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh
02/05/2015 at 15:21

I agree, its progress.

Galileo Humpkins (aka MC Clap Yo Handz) > daender
02/05/2015 at 15:23

Appears to be safe, murder/suicide . Why do murder-suicide people always insist on doing it backwards??

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > BigBlock440
02/05/2015 at 15:34

we have those, but never mass murder at a school.

Tina Corbett > daender
02/05/2015 at 15:34

Be safe my man!

Hey, y'all, watch this! > daender
02/05/2015 at 15:52

SLED is saying it's a murder-suicide. I'm a Gamecock alum, myself, and this is heartbreaking.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > daender
02/05/2015 at 15:55

Damnit... Scary shit. Hope you're okay.

BigBlock440 > Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh
02/05/2015 at 15:55

We've only had 3 in the last 20 years, and they "only" total to 76 casualties, one less than Norway's (if that was at a school, I don't remember). I don't think America is an outlier, even Germany has 3 in the double digits over the same time period.

GhostZ > Lekker
02/05/2015 at 20:14

Here's another way to look at it:

Children are a $250,000 - $600,000 low-risk labor investment that takes 20-27 years to pay off. Every time someone has a child and puts it through school, the government has to tax everyone else a little more to pay for teaching and education.

When you choose to go to college, you are entering an agreement to basically extend that social loan. You say "I'll pay a few hundred thousand more now if you pay me more when I graduate." Society says "deal" because that money goes toward research, new businesses, and supporting the older, post-graduate generation.

Ultimately, anyone who is under stress of debt from going to college didn't take the 15 minutes it takes to sit down with a calculator and figure out how much tuition at their chosen school costs, and then figure out how to pay for it.

Success is rewarded by being paid. That's how a capitalist system works. If you're the smartest, coolest, most interesting person but you can't make yourself useful, then you're not going to be successful.

Lekker > GhostZ
02/06/2015 at 10:06

While I don't disagree with any of what you stated, there's a bit of a "detail" with your logic. Or two.

anyone who is under stress of debt from going to college didn't take the 15 minutes it takes to sit down with a calculator and figure out how much tuition at their chosen school costs, and then figure out how to pay for it.

Er, no. Anyone who HAS THE AMBITION to try to get to college, has to undergo that stress. Having 15 minutes to think about tuition and therefore charges overall has no correlation with being able to pay said tuition. As an out of state, and international student, I was guaranteed to have to pay a minimum of 36 thousand USD for ONE SEMESTER of college. ONE. Now tell me, how exactly in my life prior to 18 years of age is one supposed to prepare for those expenses? Or how is someone who traveled from another country, even expected to have access to any of the tools which most people born here, utterly waste and take for granted?

I would have to disagree, because in the professional world of capitalism it is not your merits (solely) which award you and pay you. It is who you know . Which is where this capitalistic reward becomes the american dream. No, you do not get rewarded for just working hard. As a matter of fact, there hasn't been a single position I've been in where the hardest workers are the most rewarded. Nor the most praised, or even recognized. None of that matters if you're not in the right status quo. Which all goes back around to the issue, not just in this country, but so many. That such a small amount of people own such a vast, anything. — I've lost objectivity. My point being: Yes, hard work pays off. Hardly. This coming from someone who has been working since 14 years old, and worked 2 jobs while attending college full-time, because it's not gonna pay itself. While my own debt for schooling is minimal in comparison, the fact remains that the seemingly useful years of college we are charged hundreds of thousands for, is only to be treated or considered officially "competent" only by peers, while every job out there could care less about your degree.

And yet, I'm thankful for being here. Because while any of these things might sound like horrible, at least there's a safe place I can rest my head at night, and not fear for my life. Or that I'm going to get pulled over by the Federal Police, and have to pay them my entire life savings in order to convince them not to "Impound" my own means of transportation, merely because they want some easy money. Or that when you call the authorities in so many other countries, you can count with them being paid off by someone else, who will then find you and... you know where this is going. At least I can sleep safe at night, and not fear for my life. I'll take some debt and stay alive, I guess you gotta pay to play.

GhostZ > Lekker
02/06/2015 at 11:19

I wasn't saying working hard is rewarded, just making yourself useful. Making yourself useful =/= working hard. Being familiar and friendly with someone ("who you know") is making yourself useful. They are VERY different sentiments.

A dollar bill is a paper contract saying "I am going to give some unit of time and energy to you, so that I can redeem that time and energy at a later date somewhere else." As long as people are willing to accept the terms of that agreement, you're useful. Convincing someone to accept the terms of that agreement is about how you know people, which then turns into who you know.

The reason people are paid different wages is because different applications of time and energy yield different results. Money can be used to build machines, which create leverage. This is what a business is. $1 in the hands of a business goes farther than $1 in the hands of a child, because the business can use it to guide and control larger and larger sums of labor.

When you pay money to a college, you are agreeing to give up your ability to purchase things now in exchange for having access to the collective time and energy of the institution. It's just like buying a meal. It can make you sick, it can nourish you, it can keep you from dying, or it could just make you overweight and unhealthy. The reason you take this gamble, is that you assume after you graduate, you'll be better nourished and be able to reverse the situation, receiving larger sums of money for YOUR time and energy, meaning that you can then have greater and greater purchasing power to do things you want.

That building of resources is called, literally, capitalization. It's about the private control of capital, that's all.

That system is designed to keep you out of that college. That's the cold reality of it. They expect scholarships or families with lots of money (who will be able to give money back to the college) to enroll. The price of admission is just that. Selecting a college to go to is like shopping for a loan. A student that has to pay $36,000 a semester at one college. You are a high risk student and they want money now to avoid losing money later .

If you can get accepted into a school that costs $36k a semester, you can be accepted into a school that offers high level of financial aid, or at least costs less up front. I go to literally the most expensive school in the united states for undergraduate, whether you're international or not, but I only pay ~$4k because I've learned how the system works and use it to my advantage. Had I gone to an equivalent college (say, Princeton) I'd be paying closer to $40k.

It's not fair, but at the same time, there's a reason banks don't give out loans to low-income people who want to get a meal at Alinea.

I guess my point is that the American economy is a very cold machine. You cannot judge it on fairness, or morality, and you can't look at one or two parts (the engine, the body, the wheels) and expect to understand what it's like to drive it, or how to maintenance it. You have to treat each part as it is and understand the phenomenon in place that determine why somethings are so expensive and why some things are not.

Lekker > GhostZ
02/06/2015 at 11:41

Do not misunderstand the briefness of this response with lack of care, rather, agreeance.

You made the point I've been trying to get through:

It is a cold machine. Which is what drives people to act irrationally at times. That was the entirety of what I was trying to depict. It isn't fair, nor is it moral . Yet, it works to a certain degree. And for the record, even though it took me 5 years of college at the mentioned tuition, I graduated with a school debt of $3k. And it wasn't a special University either, I'm no Einstein. So while the economy system isn't fair or moral , you can succeed with dedication. Even if you're not from this country, or if English isn't your first language.. like me. And yeah, I will agree you have to look for opportunities. Nothing lands on your lap.

I thoroughly enjoyed this civilized and friendly discussion, GhostZ. As they should be